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In response to Justjoepublic, I received an e-mail from OAMPS and was told that PKN were not an insurance intermediary / broker, so they are actually telling lies in saying that they are.
Either that or they are not quite sure!
Further to justjoepublic's piece on PKN/ Trinity, it appears that PKN ltd is not registered in the I.O.M. for any licensable activity regulated by their Financial Services Commission. This can be checked with the I.O.M. F.S.C. register and the I.O.M.Insurance and Pensions Authority on 01624 646002. PKN Ltd does not appear to be registered with the FSA. in the UK. Their status should be confirmed by submitting Trinity's description of PKN Ltd's insurance activity to the FSA. and asking for their judgement on it.
To Admiral Point. To pick up on your email in December I have posed a question (as to why PKN Ltd were mentioned on the OAMPS insurance certificate for my development) to Trinity Estates and have received the following response:
"The cover arranged by OAMPS is routed through an insurance intermediary, PKN Limited. PKN is outside of the Trinity group although there are common shareholders. It is registered and based in the Isle of Man (the majority of PKN’s shares are owned by Isle of Man residents) and acts as an intermediary/administration company arranging insurance solely on behalf of the insured Trinity (Estates) Property Management Limited through broker Oamps Special Risks Ltd. PKN employs its own staff of insurance professionals who provide the following services:
i) Comprehensive expert advice is available on demand to all Trinity staff responsible for initiating or amending cover on managed estates;
ii) Advice on “best practice” insurance cover beyond Buildings cover – for example terrorism cover, public liability, engineering inspection requirements on such items as lifts and water pumps, and Directors’ and Officers’ insurance, to indemnify resident directors of RMCs;
iii) Claims handling and procedures and expert assistance in claims negotiations with the primary insurer;
iv) Detailed research of this specialist market, to keep Trinity staff informed of best practice and to ensure we continue to receive market-leading service from our brokers and primary insurers;
v) The administration of regular cover reviews, including the commissioning and supervision of periodic revaluations, to ensure all estates remain fully covered;
vi) Full documentary records of cover and claims records to facilitate alternative quotations for Trinity, successor managers or resident associations;
vii) The opportunity to offer customised deferred payment terms to selected estates where necessary to enable estates to retain sufficient funds to meet other costs, ensuring continuity of service provision when estate funds are tight."
I believe there may be some ammunition here for me, maybe you, maybe others who currently have to deal with Trinity Estates. I will welcome any comments.
This company were appointed by the Developer and in the 4 years since I have dealt with them they have consistently failed to properly manage the development or provide detailed accounts but have aggressively pursued payment. The problem is that they can divide and conquer so if you are an owner on the former TULIP TREE GARDENS, now Athelstan Road, Winchester development, also have concerns and want to get together to put our concerns to Trinity leave a message on this site initially. By the way I have very good experience of an alternative company whom we can nominate
My partners and I own several apartments throughout the UK and have come across many management companies. We have recently kicked them off one of sites because of what we perceived to be poor management. We appointed RMG but have realised that this is the worst thing we could have ever done. Although Trinity are not perfect I have to admit that they are probably the best of a bad bunch and probably follow regulations closer than others.
If like ourselves you are disgruntled look around first and you find Trinity are not as bad as some.
Yes Trinity Estates. They claim to manage something like 500 sites and are therefore major players in this industry and members of ARMA.- the Association of Residential Managing Agents. These complaints should be sent to ARMA to stop them claiming that they want to raise standards in the industry and yet have memebers like Trinity. It's the same story over and over - excessive charges for poor work and neglect, accounts deeply in debt, always after the letter of the Law and not the meaning causing endless strife for leaseholders. It might also be useful to write to Ian Fuell DCLG Policy Advisor on Leasehold Reform and contact your MP. and ask what is being done about it - very little it would seem unless long leaseholders start lobbying these people in an effective way and don't stop.
They have been managing our estate for 3 years. We are an apartment block of 12 flats on a new build estate and we are paying over £100 a month for a very poor service. I have gone through the budget breakdown with a fine tooth comb and we are paying about £300 a year too much for our service charge and after the joke of a service we received last year, some residents are seeking legal advice and are now withholding payment. Trinity have set up a residents management company on the estates behalf (they are charging us d&o liability insurance for this so we can sue ourselves!) and we have yet to receive a date for our first meeting. As mentioned previously, you need to get 51% of residents to agree to sack Trinity. Would this have to be 51% of the whole estate or could we just do this with our block? I'm not sure if the freeholders are having the same issues (the 50 houses on our estate only pay 30% of the entire management charge and the 12 flats in the block pay the remaining 70% which is not fair).
What do we do after we've received the majority 'vote' and how can we make sure we don't appoint another company just as bad or worse than Trinity? Also, is it possible to manage our estate or block ourselves?
Sidings Court, as mentioned at various points throughout this thread, you need to obtain 51% of leaseholders to agree to remove them as the management company. This is the easiest way of removing them, but usually requires somebody or a collection of on your estate to rally the troops and get the signatures.
It is unrewarding and time consuming, but unfortunately is a requirement otherwise you are stuck with these jokers.
You would then need to remove them yourselves after you have formed a RTM company, or appoint somebody to do the job for you.
I really feel for anybody who has these as a management company. But they are blatantly taking advantage of a completely unregulated industry, and one that leaves them with carte blanche to rip every leaseholder under their due restriction off.
The property developers are equally to blame in my opinion. We asked our developer to remove them, but they were simply not interested. So anybody on a Persimmon Homes development expect the same disgraceful service should you waste your time in going to them. They have your money already, so they are completely disinterested in helping you any further.
Trinity Estates are supposed to look out for the best interests of the developments that they manage, but their only purpose in my opinion is to blatantly rip people off.
I can't believe there are so many of you in the same boat.
I have been with Trinity Estates for just over 3 years now when I brought my new flat (new build) and we (the leaseholders) have not stopped complaining and contacting Trinity about issues and problems with the flats since.
We have set up a leaseholders group and we meet up when we have issues to discuss. We even had a meeting with trinity late last year but according to the other leaseholders who attended, it was a waste of time.
Since being with them they have increased their services every year, last year it increased by 25% and on top of that they charged almost £100 for redecoration fees which were not required. they stopped services as they claim some residents have not paid and this has been stopped for almost 7 months now.
Now they claim the yearly accounts for year end July 2009 is in deficit of over £50000 so each flat has to pay around £628!!!
This was the final straw and we are planning on taking them to the LVT in the hope they can help us sort out all this over payment and charging.
It's just not on especially when they slap you with that bill just before Christmas and tell you that it will come out your direct debit in January!
We are just fed up with them and hope to get rid of them as they are just a complete waste of time who do nothing for the building as our blocks are looking appealing since they stopped the services and all they do is keep increasing payments and charges!
Another ridiculous thing is that they claim they did not know they had to pay water for 2 of our blocks, this was 3 years ago since the new flats were built. The water charge was stated in our contracts so i do not know how they missed this and why it has taken them 3 years to discover this and now they slap that bill on the leaseholders to pay!!!
If you buy a property that has service management MAKE SURE IT'S NOT TRINITY ESTATES MANAGEMENT!!!
Hi. We have much the same problems as everyone else, so not much point repeating the same things but could "Admiral Point" or any one else tell me how he went about sacking Trinity. Thanks
I own a property managed by Trinity Estates but moved abroad so now let it out. The people in my property have complained to me that the vehicle gates in the car park broke down just before Christmas and it took about five days for them to get repaired. As this is the first rental property I have owned I don't really know if this is acceptable or not - or even if my tenants are "trying it on" with me to be honest.
Does anyone with more experience than me have an opinion as to whether this is acceptable? My initial reaction is that it isn't good and therefore I'm marking them down.
Re: - Trinity (Estates) Property Management Ltd, Stewart Andrew Ltd, PKN Ltd.
It is the apartment owners of each development that Trinity manage, which include some very elderly and infirm people who are meant to benefit from the buildings insurance policy and who are the individuals who ultimately paid the premiums that Trinity Estates have charged them.
The premiums that Axa the Insurer have received bears no resemblance to the amounts paid by the Property Owners and charged by Trinity (Estates) Property Management Limited, (3853617) Vantage Point, 23 Mark Road, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire,
HP2 7DN.
The company PKN Ltd, who are registered in the Isle of Man (119681C)
3 Glen Road, Laxey, Isle of Man, IM4 7AB, has the following share holding:-
Mr Peter Andrew Halliwell, Mr David Stewart Lloyd and Mr Richard James Townend
each has 277 Shares, Mr Simon John Michael Devonald has 147 Shares and
Mr Jonathan Smith has 20 Shares and they are the same directors or ex directors as Trinity.
In this respect Trinity takes your buiding insurance out with PKN Ltd (which they own)so OAMPS the London broker can place business for a UK based client, on UK based properties, but that Intermediary namely PKN Ltd can operate outside the UK completely unregulated and without any transparency”.
As this is what is going on with your Insurance money PKN Ltd is acting as an intermediary arranging insurance solely on behalf of the insured Trinity (Estates) via OAMPs” then this Isle of Man based Limited Company has only been created to "Inter-account". But the ultimate payees of the final inflated premium which is you the estates apartment owners themselves are paying your money to Trinity Directors offshore.
Prior to the insurance intermediary PKN Ltd being Isle of Man based all Trinity’s building insurance was placed with Stewart Andrew Ltd, (05042997) Vantage Point, 23 Mark Road, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, HP2 7DN. This UK registered company was FSA regulated and has only one share issued which is solely owned by Trinity and It may well be that they were removed from this carousel to enable the excessive insurance charges to be hidden and possibly reduce UK Corporation Tax, which we have reported to H. M. Customs & Revenue Investigations.
Through this roundabout arrangement the disparity in the premium that Axa charge for the Building Insurance risk on your estate and the premiums that Trinity Estates actually charge you is not being disclosed to you the Individual apartment owners who are funding PKN Ltd/Trinity Directors and Ex Directors offshore profits.
As Trinity claim to manage between 600 and 700 estates and have kindly supplied our development us with both “Stewart Andrew Ltd and PKN Ltd Fee Notes” we know this practice is being replicated throughout all the estates that Trinity manage. We have written to The FSA Complaints Department who has fully explained to us that one of its Statutory Objectives is that of Consumer Protection and we feel Trinity’s actions have a very serious conflict of interest resulting in selected Trinity directors and ex directors receiving an Income stream offshore unknowingly funded by you the estate apartment owners.
And after all that Trinity still cant do the job.
Want to get rid of them copy this and send it to them and ask for an explaination
Mr. S. T. Flaherty
For and on behalf of Admiral Heights, Point and View RTM Companies Limited.
I contacted my local newspaper about Trinity Estates today and they are appalled at what Trinity are doing and are going to run a story. We are hoping to start a residents association but in the meantime I am talking to local media so other people do not fall foul of Trinity. I have also started a Facebook group to start communication between residents in my block in Southampton.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=206839046390
I have lived in my property for aprox 3 years and Trinity have never failed to deliver appalling service!
They are rude and unapproachable when called and it was only when I threatened to sue should I fall down the stairs as the lights werent working that they responded. I have found email to be the best approach but even that is tiresome and frustrating.
They are incompentant company only interested in charging for a service not provided.
Our estate has recently set up a residents committee and I will be attending the next one. I will let you know how we get on.
Hopeless... they spend ~50% over budget every year, and seemingly only discover this at the last minute and then ask for the amount of the over-spend in full, before confessing that you can spread it over 6 months if you pester them.
They then send apparently randomly computed demands for immediate payment without any kind of statement of account, and in spite of the fact I've been paying them regularly as agreed.
I too have been receiving copious letters from trinity with demands for extra monies. Having lived in the property myself at sportcity, circumstances required me to move out and I now rent the property out. It stresses me to think what my tenants have to put up with. And having put up with the demands for several years, I'm losing the plot now, as its started to get just a bit too aggressive and unfair. If there is anyone out there who is or has tried to do something re: trinity and sportcity, I'm onboard - I noticed a comment previously re: mail drops - I didnt get one if there was one. Please get in touch. thanks
It would help me also if someone could outline the procedure for kicking Trinity out!
When I moved in to my current flat I handed over a large wedge of money to pay up to September's service charge. Move in and find out they are, as others have reported, only paying for insurance. So now I live in an estate which is falling massively into disrepair - litter everywhere, overgrown gardens, smelly, dirty communal areas, bin doors broken off, door locks broken etc.
I agree. They are terrible to deal with. I've stop trying and am forming a residents' association to get rid of them. Can someone who has successfully booted them outline the process that they have done?
Can anyone recommend a decent and honest managment company that operates in the West/North-West London area.
This is not a good company to be doing business with. We have just been asked to cough up over £1000 for exterior decorating. We only had it done 6 months ago and nobody wants it done, they argued that in the contract it stated 5 years on closer inspection it was found that no years and nothing specific about exteriour decor was stated. We have started a comittee and we want them out ASAP
Trinity is so bad on just about every aspect of their service; we are forming a residents group to be rid of them. We all pay a fortune a month in service charges for what can only be described appalling service.
Dancing Queen, just read your comments, how have things progressed with you, we only had our letter yesterday. Have your services been started up again.
They have surpassed themselves, got a letter saying they will no longer cleaning inside or outside the building, no window cleaning. no garden maintenance and no repairs, because too many leaseholders have not paid their service charge.
WHO'S JOB IS IT TO COLLECT THE SERVICE CHARGE, Yes Trinity so they have failed miserably again. GET THE SOLICITORS ON THE CASE, GET THE HEAVY MOB OUT, I PAY MY SERVICE CHARGE MAKE THEM PAY THEIRS. It is a nightmare, this Company should be struck off for imcompetance.
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Visitors to the site are reminded that the details contained within user comments are uncorroborated and as such should not be read as fact but as the opinion of the person who left the comment.
Comments:
Either that or they are not quite sure!
"The cover arranged by OAMPS is routed through an insurance intermediary, PKN Limited. PKN is outside of the Trinity group although there are common shareholders. It is registered and based in the Isle of Man (the majority of PKN’s shares are owned by Isle of Man residents) and acts as an intermediary/administration company arranging insurance solely on behalf of the insured Trinity (Estates) Property Management Limited through broker Oamps Special Risks Ltd. PKN employs its own staff of insurance professionals who provide the following services:
i) Comprehensive expert advice is available on demand to all Trinity staff responsible for initiating or amending cover on managed estates;
ii) Advice on “best practice” insurance cover beyond Buildings cover – for example terrorism cover, public liability, engineering inspection requirements on such items as lifts and water pumps, and Directors’ and Officers’ insurance, to indemnify resident directors of RMCs;
iii) Claims handling and procedures and expert assistance in claims negotiations with the primary insurer;
iv) Detailed research of this specialist market, to keep Trinity staff informed of best practice and to ensure we continue to receive market-leading service from our brokers and primary insurers;
v) The administration of regular cover reviews, including the commissioning and supervision of periodic revaluations, to ensure all estates remain fully covered;
vi) Full documentary records of cover and claims records to facilitate alternative quotations for Trinity, successor managers or resident associations;
vii) The opportunity to offer customised deferred payment terms to selected estates where necessary to enable estates to retain sufficient funds to meet other costs, ensuring continuity of service provision when estate funds are tight."
I believe there may be some ammunition here for me, maybe you, maybe others who currently have to deal with Trinity Estates. I will welcome any comments.
If like ourselves you are disgruntled look around first and you find Trinity are not as bad as some.
What do we do after we've received the majority 'vote' and how can we make sure we don't appoint another company just as bad or worse than Trinity? Also, is it possible to manage our estate or block ourselves?
It is unrewarding and time consuming, but unfortunately is a requirement otherwise you are stuck with these jokers.
You would then need to remove them yourselves after you have formed a RTM company, or appoint somebody to do the job for you.
I really feel for anybody who has these as a management company. But they are blatantly taking advantage of a completely unregulated industry, and one that leaves them with carte blanche to rip every leaseholder under their due restriction off.
The property developers are equally to blame in my opinion. We asked our developer to remove them, but they were simply not interested. So anybody on a Persimmon Homes development expect the same disgraceful service should you waste your time in going to them. They have your money already, so they are completely disinterested in helping you any further.
Trinity Estates are supposed to look out for the best interests of the developments that they manage, but their only purpose in my opinion is to blatantly rip people off.
I have been with Trinity Estates for just over 3 years now when I brought my new flat (new build) and we (the leaseholders) have not stopped complaining and contacting Trinity about issues and problems with the flats since.
We have set up a leaseholders group and we meet up when we have issues to discuss. We even had a meeting with trinity late last year but according to the other leaseholders who attended, it was a waste of time.
Since being with them they have increased their services every year, last year it increased by 25% and on top of that they charged almost £100 for redecoration fees which were not required. they stopped services as they claim some residents have not paid and this has been stopped for almost 7 months now.
Now they claim the yearly accounts for year end July 2009 is in deficit of over £50000 so each flat has to pay around £628!!!
This was the final straw and we are planning on taking them to the LVT in the hope they can help us sort out all this over payment and charging.
It's just not on especially when they slap you with that bill just before Christmas and tell you that it will come out your direct debit in January!
We are just fed up with them and hope to get rid of them as they are just a complete waste of time who do nothing for the building as our blocks are looking appealing since they stopped the services and all they do is keep increasing payments and charges!
Another ridiculous thing is that they claim they did not know they had to pay water for 2 of our blocks, this was 3 years ago since the new flats were built. The water charge was stated in our contracts so i do not know how they missed this and why it has taken them 3 years to discover this and now they slap that bill on the leaseholders to pay!!!
If you buy a property that has service management MAKE SURE IT'S NOT TRINITY ESTATES MANAGEMENT!!!
Does anyone with more experience than me have an opinion as to whether this is acceptable? My initial reaction is that it isn't good and therefore I'm marking them down.
It is the apartment owners of each development that Trinity manage, which include some very elderly and infirm people who are meant to benefit from the buildings insurance policy and who are the individuals who ultimately paid the premiums that Trinity Estates have charged them.
The premiums that Axa the Insurer have received bears no resemblance to the amounts paid by the Property Owners and charged by Trinity (Estates) Property Management Limited, (3853617) Vantage Point, 23 Mark Road, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire,
HP2 7DN.
The company PKN Ltd, who are registered in the Isle of Man (119681C)
3 Glen Road, Laxey, Isle of Man, IM4 7AB, has the following share holding:-
Mr Peter Andrew Halliwell, Mr David Stewart Lloyd and Mr Richard James Townend
each has 277 Shares, Mr Simon John Michael Devonald has 147 Shares and
Mr Jonathan Smith has 20 Shares and they are the same directors or ex directors as Trinity.
In this respect Trinity takes your buiding insurance out with PKN Ltd (which they own)so OAMPS the London broker can place business for a UK based client, on UK based properties, but that Intermediary namely PKN Ltd can operate outside the UK completely unregulated and without any transparency”.
As this is what is going on with your Insurance money PKN Ltd is acting as an intermediary arranging insurance solely on behalf of the insured Trinity (Estates) via OAMPs” then this Isle of Man based Limited Company has only been created to "Inter-account". But the ultimate payees of the final inflated premium which is you the estates apartment owners themselves are paying your money to Trinity Directors offshore.
Prior to the insurance intermediary PKN Ltd being Isle of Man based all Trinity’s building insurance was placed with Stewart Andrew Ltd, (05042997) Vantage Point, 23 Mark Road, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, HP2 7DN. This UK registered company was FSA regulated and has only one share issued which is solely owned by Trinity and It may well be that they were removed from this carousel to enable the excessive insurance charges to be hidden and possibly reduce UK Corporation Tax, which we have reported to H. M. Customs & Revenue Investigations.
Through this roundabout arrangement the disparity in the premium that Axa charge for the Building Insurance risk on your estate and the premiums that Trinity Estates actually charge you is not being disclosed to you the Individual apartment owners who are funding PKN Ltd/Trinity Directors and Ex Directors offshore profits.
As Trinity claim to manage between 600 and 700 estates and have kindly supplied our development us with both “Stewart Andrew Ltd and PKN Ltd Fee Notes” we know this practice is being replicated throughout all the estates that Trinity manage. We have written to The FSA Complaints Department who has fully explained to us that one of its Statutory Objectives is that of Consumer Protection and we feel Trinity’s actions have a very serious conflict of interest resulting in selected Trinity directors and ex directors receiving an Income stream offshore unknowingly funded by you the estate apartment owners.
And after all that Trinity still cant do the job.
Want to get rid of them copy this and send it to them and ask for an explaination
Mr. S. T. Flaherty
For and on behalf of Admiral Heights, Point and View RTM Companies Limited.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=206839046390
They are rude and unapproachable when called and it was only when I threatened to sue should I fall down the stairs as the lights werent working that they responded. I have found email to be the best approach but even that is tiresome and frustrating.
They are incompentant company only interested in charging for a service not provided.
Our estate has recently set up a residents committee and I will be attending the next one. I will let you know how we get on.
They then send apparently randomly computed demands for immediate payment without any kind of statement of account, and in spite of the fact I've been paying them regularly as agreed.
They ignore e-mails too.
Their organisation is setup to deliver very poor service.
If you are new to Trinity feel free to contact me blagger ben (dot) m (dot) newton (ATsymbol) gmail
Trinity are good at demanding money, but good for precious little else.
We want rid!
Just started by canvassing all residents possible, and we are up to 50% in favour of booting them after only one door knocking session.
Our plan:
- Get as many people to sign up their interest in forming a residents association, with a view to forming a "Right to Manage" limited company.
see here for info:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=21
-Serve notice to the landlord that we are taking over management of the site.
-Employ a local, reputable company to take care of affairs.
I will let you know how we get on!!
When I moved in to my current flat I handed over a large wedge of money to pay up to September's service charge. Move in and find out they are, as others have reported, only paying for insurance. So now I live in an estate which is falling massively into disrepair - litter everywhere, overgrown gardens, smelly, dirty communal areas, bin doors broken off, door locks broken etc.
I agree. They are terrible to deal with. I've stop trying and am forming a residents' association to get rid of them. Can someone who has successfully booted them outline the process that they have done?
Can anyone recommend a decent and honest managment company that operates in the West/North-West London area.
This is not a good company to be doing business with. We have just been asked to cough up over £1000 for exterior decorating. We only had it done 6 months ago and nobody wants it done, they argued that in the contract it stated 5 years on closer inspection it was found that no years and nothing specific about exteriour decor was stated. We have started a comittee and we want them out ASAP
WHO'S JOB IS IT TO COLLECT THE SERVICE CHARGE, Yes Trinity so they have failed miserably again. GET THE SOLICITORS ON THE CASE, GET THE HEAVY MOB OUT, I PAY MY SERVICE CHARGE MAKE THEM PAY THEIRS. It is a nightmare, this Company should be struck off for imcompetance.
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